There seems to be an attempt to destroy the freedom of the public in the UK. How do you feel about this and at what point do we need to stand against it?
1 cctv camera to every 14 people.
local government and organisations given the right to bug homes.
The right to strike without being sacked taken away.
Politicians exempt from the freedom of information act and obtaining 拢1000%26#039;s by expenses deception but without being prosecuted.
All politicial parties offering the same polices - creating a state without democratic choice.
All parties seeking an end to human rights.
Legislation against religion. Legislation to imprison people without charge.
Legislation to prevent peaceful protest anywhere near Parliament.
Attempts to destroy the monarchy. Increased Imperialism and complicity between Government and corporations.
Fear manipulation by lack of policing and early release scheme for serious offenders.
I just wonder how you feel about this?
A very British Fascist State.....?
If people spoke to each other more, it%26#039;d help matters. When people are isolated, are scared of or don%26#039;t trust each other THATS when bad things start to happen...
Always remember, theres more of us than them...
A very British Fascist State.....?
Yes, but unlike a fascist state we have the democratic right to vote the labour government out of office. Unfortunately morons keep voting them back in.
Reply:Its a joke, the country isnt for the people its for the government. Funny though how when we are watched constantly by cctv they never seem to see the serious crimes??? I think this country is going down the toilet and it is no suprise people are leaving on a larger scale than ever before. People are working 24/7 for no rewards even the most hard working people cant afford to pay their bills, it seems like the government are sucking the fun and the life out of people....... This country has the ability to be really fantastic if only the government were less interested in lining their own pockets.
Reply:It will be a police run state very soon, we have lost all of our freedom
Reply:These are all very different issues, so to take them one at a time:
1. cctv camera to every 14 people: yes, this is a serious issue. it%26#039;s the sort of the thing that could be abused by a police / fascist state - but it doesn%26#039;t necessarily mean it will be. on the other hand, it%26#039;s also a useful tool for our protection. i think it%26#039;s the sort of thing we need to keep a careful eye on, without necessarily doing away with it altogether - maybe overall control of the cctv system should be placed in the hands of an independent body, separate from the state and the police.
2. local government and organisations given the right to bug home: same comments as (1).
3. The right to strike without being sacked taken away: also a serious issue, but the trade unions have only themselves to blame. in the past they%26#039;ve really taken the p!ss by abusing their right to strike.
4. Politicians exempt from the freedom of information act and obtaining 拢1000%26#039;s by expenses deception but without being prosecuted: are they? true, they do find ways around it, but you must bear in mind that the FoI act and declaration of expenses are recent innovations. Undoubtedly they%26#039;re not perfect yet. Maybe we should treat them as %26quot;works in progress%26quot; and try to refine them until they do work properly.
You must also bear in mind that government corruption has existed as long as governments. It%26#039;s my belief that it%26#039;s nowhere near as bad as it used to be - we just hear about it more.
5. All politicial parties offering the same polices - creating a state without democratic choice: I don%26#039;t think that%26#039;s true at all, they do have some variation in policies. The problem is we have - effectively - a two party system. Unfortunately, it costs vast sums of money to enter a governmental election, not just in deposit but in campaigning costs, which restricts individuals from putting themselves forward or even setting up new parties.
We could do with a new system which makes it easier for those with more radical views to enter elections - but such a system would be open to huge amounts of abuse by silly people putting themselves forward.
I agree, it%26#039;s not perfect, and we must try to find a better way, but it%26#039;s difficult to see what. Maybe the subject of a separate question... and it could be worse, we could be living in the USA, where you have a choice between right and far right.
6. All parties seeking an end to human rights: same comments as (4). The Human Rights Act is a recent innovation, which isn%26#039;t perfect yet, but is a step in the right direction and needs tweaking.
7. Legislation against religion: where? I%26#039;ve not heard of any. Please give examples.
8. Legislation to imprison people without charge: now, here you have a good point. This is total abuse of power.
9. Legislation to prevent peaceful protest anywhere near Parliament: also a total abuse of power.
10. Attempts to destroy the monarchy: if we lived in a state where we couldn%26#039;t protest against the monarchy, then we would be living in a totalitarian state, so i must completely disagree with you on this one.
11. Increased imperialism: which century are you living in? The empire was dismantled in the middle of the last century.
12. complicity between Government and corporations: this has been going on forever as well, and again it%26#039;s my belief that it%26#039;s nowhere near as bad as it used to be - we have far more regulation %26amp; bodies (eg the Financial Services Authority, various ombudsmen, Ofcom, Oftel, etc) to counter this than we used to.
13. Fear manipulation by lack of policing and early release scheme for serious offenders: now I think you%26#039;re just being paranoid, I%26#039;m afraid. The reasons for these are mainly financial %26amp; social. Social changes in the 20th Century led to us all having increased expectations of life, and hence greater unrest when those expectations aren%26#039;t met. As unrest increases, it requires greater financial resources to counter them - ie more police %26amp; more prisons. (But if we had these, would you use them as more evidence of a fascist state? So the state can%26#039;t win!!)
However, this would require increased taxes, which governments can%26#039;t do or else they%26#039;ll be quickly voted out. Again, they can%26#039;t win.
The only solution is to address the underlying social problems, but this would require long-term solutions - over 20 years or more. Again, governments are in a bind over this, as Britain has been conditioned to expect %26quot;quick fix%26quot; solutions, which in this case just aren%26#039;t possible.
In summary, I think you have some very good points - but I also believe that things are better than they could be, better than they were, and better than you give them credit for. We do have a lot of things to be worried over - the cctv example, for instance - but with the proper care and attention they needn%26#039;t develop into actual problems.
Reply:Absolutely!
Reply:This country is a soft-touch. The CCTV camera%26#039;s are there to monitor whether or not white British citizens are being good to the minorities, Labour government should all be hung, drawn and quartered, same to the Tories, either BNP or UKIP should be in power. There%26#039;s nothing for the REAL British citizens here. There%26#039;s nothing left for me, so I wont be around much longer to see this country sink to new depths. I%26#039;m gonna move to a different country, either Holland or Canada.
Reply:Personally, I feel the same way you do about this. We should already be standing against it, but most people seem to be content with being controlled like this, otherwise they wouldn%26#039;t keep voting Labour back into power. One thing I%26#039;m particularly angry about is the ID card system the government are going to introduce. They are going to create a detailed database of every person over 16 and we may all have to carry cards with detailed personal information. I think that the UK is steadily becoming more and more Orwellian, and it can%26#039;t be prevented unless the public make a strong stand against it.
Reply:It%26#039;s probably too late already. I left 12 years ago and never regretted it. I have lived under a so-called communist government for the past three years and have never felt such personal freedom; no stupid, pointless regulations such as those from Brussels.
Reply:The erosion started years ago , it has always been a questionable society as regards rights , there is an urgency at this time to push more draconian laws and %26quot; situations %26quot; against the individual through . It has lead towards a bitter state with exclusion becoming the norm a hierarchy of yes men and manipulated people , much publicity towards schemes that are not supported giving the illusion by the press that all is positive , leads to further insecurity . Many people look toward leaving which further undermines the society localand national , come the revolution .
Reply:And this is supposed to be a socialist government?
I think it%26#039;s time that George Orwell%26#039;s 1984 should be compulsory reading. CCTV should monitor all people who haven%26#039;t read it and punish all those who refuse to read it.
Now how%26#039;s that for fascism? An idea for Cameron?
It seems to me that Labour is moving to the %26#039;Right%26#039; and the Tory party is moving to the %26#039;Left%26#039;. Except, as normal. the Tory party has not said how they are going to finance their %26#039;BIG Ideas%26#039;.
Reply:makes me angry then depressed as how can we change it?-Change/freedom has to be taken -its rarely given-I feel anarchy is actually the only answer
Reply:Wow! That is quite a list of points. And we in the US are facing similar issues today. In fact, under the current administration some of these losses are being, and have been, widely debated in the courts and in other forums. While the loss of any single freedom is monstrous, during some historical periods similar actions have been taken. Although a few of the above predate 2001, others have been called forth, and were specifically designed, to correlate with the war effort. [Of course, many will remain in place once hostilities cease but some will likely be overturned by public appeal. And if they are not, one or two will be so as to appease public sentiment. While the rest will become the basis for newly enacted laws.] The current administration has evoked such specter (of fear) whenever support was required for whatever goofy policy was being pandered to the masses. It has always been the case, however, that any leader no matter how attractive to the public, has more in common with his/her political opponents than with any segment of the polity. And in this time of the %26quot;legal-rational%26quot; leader (ideal) typology, a strong association with corporations is to be expected. Thus, any laws enacted heretofore, appear to be corporately sponsored. As everyone is aware, the law is a flexible entity. What is acceptable today may not be tomorrow. As such, one should keep a weather eye on both the judges and the barristers.
Additionally, whenever a significant conflict exists in the world a warrior group is called forth. Such group is usually comprised of the less advantaged classes. Therefore, in the homeland troubles may erupt between these individuals and the other classes. When warriors are created they cannot be %26quot;just shut off%26quot; once the conflict begins to mollify. Therefore, some of these changes in decrees are a result of efforts to protect the communities and peoples residing near the sources of potential problems.
Finally, significant alterations of the law and the associated loss of personal freedoms are highly correlated with the merger of disparate ideologies. That is, the %26quot;new world order%26quot; is being effected as we speak. Such changes pave the way for the softening of hostilities between the warring factions and the unification of cultures. This combination has been deemed desirable and productive based upon the natural behavior of mankind over time.
Therefore, while we may not appreciate such perceived losses at this point in time, some of these changes will be of benefit to us and others in the long term and some will actually have a negligible effect.
Reply:**** religion thats another insitiue that cripples human beings int he sense they controll!!!!
Reply:%26quot;All parties seeking an end to human rights.
Legislation against religion. Legislation to imprison people without charge.%26quot;
I don%26#039;t think these are true. Most, if not all parties are trying to promote human rights (publicly at least). As is stands, there is practically no violation of human rights in the UK.
There has certainly been no legislation to restrict the established church or to my knowledge any other faith. In fact, 2/3 of all new state funded schools planned will be faith schools that will not be regulated by the national curriculum.
These aside, I do think that the government is gradually becoming more authoritarian, and deals with large industries (including churches) will eventually make every aspect of our lives under State control.
Reply:Ask the Danes politely if they%26#039;d care to float over to intervene.
If not on your behalf then it would be close enough to suit your purposes. How you get the Danes out again is probably one muddle all England can %26#039;geld%26#039; away.
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